ZC3rr0r

At the risk of being called a “not all men apologist” here, I, as a man, can’t fathom how anyone could be motivated to rape someone. The mere thought of violating consent to such a degree is physically repulsive to me. And to then add physical assault to that and violate someone who is unconscious, I am at a loss for words. In fact, I can’t even being to imagine how you can even go through with that act physically.

At some level it makes me think that the people perpetrating these acts aren’t even human, but that’s also a way too convenient excuse to let them off the hook. The really challenging part for me (and I suppose many other men) is accepting that they ARE human, and they walk among us. I have no idea how to deal with this, legitimately.

I always presume that everyone I meet is a reasonable, non-violent, “normal” person, and it’s things like this (rape statistic numbers) that shatter that world view to the point of leaving me simultaneously feeling incredibly angry, powerless, and paranoid about my fellow humans.

I am so sorry for her and all other victims who’ve had to experience something so far beyond what I can even begin to imagine, and I know that nothing I say here will make a difference. I hope you’re able to heal back to some semblance of yourself before this happened to you, and I will support both monetarily and vocally any effort to eradicate this behaviour from our societies.

Downvote me if you want for providing this personal perspective in a thread about a victim (and victims) of rape. I don’t intend to grandstand here, take attention away from the victim(s), or make myself look like some sort of white knight. I just need a place to share my perspective and I hope Lemmy will allow me to do so.

Oh hey, who could’ve seen that one coming from President “Cheat like hell”?

That wasn’t my intent, both men should be considered to have agency and responsibility for their actions. I just don’t want history to forget that neither man operates alone, and that there was/is a group of people who are just as evil surrounding them that we should hold just as responsible.

Yeah, that’s exactly why he should be held responsible for it, I’m absolutely not trying to debate that.

I’m just trying to get people to look past the “great man theory of history” and admit that Hitler didn’t happen in a vacuum. You don’t get a Holocaust without people around him being willing and able to carry out evil themselves. Which means that saying “Hitler caused the Holocaust” let’s a while lot of other evil people off the hook, who all played crucial parts in making it happen.

I’m hammering that point because it’s so relevant again today. Trump might be an evil narcissist piece of shit, but by himself he’s relatively harmless/containable (see the relatively smaller damage the Trump 1 regime did vs Trump 2). It’s the folks who are just as evil themselves enabling him that are exacerbating the impact this time around. And if we’re ever going to see Nuremberg style justice for this presidency, I’d be extremely disappointed if only Trump gets held responsible.

No, my original reply was directed at hoppeduponcoffee

Alright, that’s fair. The Jews were a scapegoat for the economy in lots of places at the time though, so it was an easy target to get the masses riled up I suppose.

Also, while Mein Kampf described many races as inferior, the actual mechanics of what would be the Holocaust and the decisions that resulted in the Final Solution were largely shaped over time through small decisions that fed on each other by multiple individuals.

Put differently, Hitler never ordered the Holocaust directly or personally. Yes, he talked a lot about the end if the Jewish race, but to pretend he was solely responsible for coming up with this policy lets the other architects of the Holocaust off the hook way too lightly.

None of that excuses him and his regime overseeing and directing these atrocities though. I think we can all agree that this was a uniquely evil policy for which there is no punishment big or fitting enough (even the Nuremberg trials struggled to (and acknowledged) mete out judgement that was in any way proportional to the suffering the defendants had caused).

That’s fair, and corroborates my initial point. Saying Bin Laden had legitimate beef whereas Hitler did not is reductionist at best. Just like the French being super punitive in the treaty of Versailles, the German people had legitimate grievances that were insufficiently addressed by their political leadership, resulting in the king of climate that enabled a despotic genocidal maniac to take power. That doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

I’m not disagreeing with anything you said, nor defending Nazi Germany. I’m just pointing out that saying something along the lines of “the difference between Bin Laden and Hitler is that he had legitimate beef whereas Hitler did not” is at the very least reductive.

People don’t follow a reactionary populist for no reason. Without legitimate grievances in German society, Nazi Germany would not have happened. Simple as.

I don’t buy into the great man myth of some people being such legitimate influencers of history that their deeds would’ve existed despite circumstances.

In contrary: It’s the circumstances that allow certain people to influence large enough parts of society to enact their plan/will, but it never happens by happenstance nor in isolation, nor without the help of lots of other people/enabelers.

Hitler arguably had legitimate beef as well with at least France and the UK. The treaty of Versailles was very lopsided and placed both the blame and reparations for WW1 largely on Germany.

It’s not unreasonable to state that clause 231 almost directly lead to the economic situation and resentment that fueled the German people to reject their political system in favour of radical change (yes, I know Hitler never actually won a fair election, but he did enjoy growing support throughout his ascension to the Reichstag).

Holy shit, he looks 3 minutes away from death in that picture. I admit I haven’t seen the most recent pictures of him, but I don’t recall him looking this haggard.